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Post by JMMREVIEW on Apr 1, 2017 14:15:01 GMT -5
*Most of what has been written below is in the video Games that change genre are one of the biggest problems in gaming today, worse still there is a new problem, one that threatens game preservation and gaming history. I am talking about game remakes that don’t resemble the original game. I bet you can’t name another remake besides Final Fantasy 7 to change genre and that is why this is so important, it could set a president which is a scary thought. If it is only happening to FFVII that we know of, why is this such an issues? There is another game remake in development right now, what if Capcom looked at FFVII and think well if Square Enix can do it why can’t we? Let’s just make Resident Evil 2 Remake an action game. That is my worst fear. I want to stress something because this topic could derail very quickly. There is a huge difference between a game series changing genre and a remaking changing genre.
I just want to make that distinction because the fact that it is now happening to remakes is far worse than the now common practise of it happening to a series. Let me draw another analogy imagine if George Lucas (or Disney) announced tomorrow that he/they are going to remake the original Star Wars movies but instead of Sci Fi as the films genre he/they are going to make them romantic comedies set in modern day New York called “Finding Love In Alderaan Places” people would be pretty pissed. *Image credit Greenfire 32 Here are 3 problems with this scenario and they apply to both Finding Love In Alderaan Places and Final Fantasy 7. 1. People could argue that this takes away from the original series (I don’t personally worry about this point but I can see how people would feel this could undermine the original work) 2. People who are new to the game/movie might write the rest of series off because they don’t like this remake. 3. If you are going to remake, reboot or reimagined a series then do it don’t use its name to generate interest and then release a completely different game. If you are going to create an entity different experience then why not just make a new IP. So those are my thoughts on FFIIV changing genre I think it is one of the great tragedy’s in gaming and one that is going on where either people don’t notice or don’t care. I would like to hear other people’s opinions and debate the topic in the comments of the video or whatever website you happen to find it on. Afterwards I will make a follow up video on this topic. I know I said I didn’t want the comments to derail but it is inevitable that sequels will come up and that is a much broader issues that also needs to be address. I have list a few of stand out examples. Survival Horror To Action Dino Crisis => Dino Crisis 2 Resident Evil Zero => Resident Evil 4 RPG to Survival Horror Parasite Eve 1 => PE2 FPS to TPS Red Faction 1 & 2 => Red Faction 3 2D to 3D Duke Nukem => Duke Nukem 3D Metroid series => Metroid Prime trilogy Fallout 1&2 => Fallout 3 Grand Theft Auto 2 => Grand Theft Auto 3 The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past => Majora’s Mask Stealth To Action Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker => Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter => Ghost Recon Wildlands Rail Shooter To Action AdventureStar Fox 64 => Star Fox Adventures => *Star Fox Assault (*back to rail shooter)
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Post by Greenfire32 on Apr 4, 2017 12:33:39 GMT -5
It's pretty much exactly how I feel about it too.
It's like if Halo ditched first-person-shooting and became the top-down RTS that Halo Wars is. Don't get me wrong, they can both exist, because Halo Wars (while still canon) is not considered part of the "Main Line." That status is reserved for the Halo games themselves (1-6).
Final Fantasy died completely the day 12 was released (its downfall began with 10) when it removed random encounters, turn-based combat, and committed a myriad of other smaller offenses.
This FF7 "remake" is anything but. It's not a remake, it's a re-imagining. They're changing key story elements, key characters, key settings, they're removing the gameplay style and replacing it with something completely different, as far as I can tell they're removing all Nubuo Uematsu's music (or heavily, HEAVILY remixing it) AND on top of all that, there is some SERIOUS suggestion that this game will only "feel complete" when you compare it with the experiences of Crisis Core and other FF7 spinoffs instead of comparing it with, Oh I dunno, the original game.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on Apr 5, 2017 12:53:43 GMT -5
I wish people would just realized that we don't need these titles and stop buying them. Seems like a good developer has an idea and it's done in a few parts. There is a strong argument for the three act structure and it extends into multiple parts of a series.
Just saying it's hard for me to have an opinion on Resident Evil 4 when it's not a Resident Evil game. I have a well enough power of observation to recognize a monopoly board in a scrabble box.
Same goes for an Call of Duty games starting with MW2. COD 4 was a fun experiment but Its also a series about soldiers in historical battles answering... the Call of Duty. They made MW2 an action movie game as a sequal to Cod4 called "Modern Warfare 2", Activison feared loss of brand recognition, and now "Call of Duty" has pretty much nothing to do with Nobel soldiers in a war.
Halo games without Bungie. Mass Effect without Hudson. People just can't accept that maybe it was fine at part 3 and they hitch when people that had no hand in creating your favorite title in a series and screw it up.
REmake 2 has a helluva steep climb without Mikami there to steer the ship as he did with REmake 1....
I guess only time will tell. The question is...
Why do publishers insist on milking franchises for profits, ultimately forging developers to strip their original concept of a original ending, signature genre, and defining gameplay for the sake something "new" to sell.
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Post by Greenfire32 on Apr 5, 2017 19:05:45 GMT -5
Why do publishers insist on milking franchises for profits, ultimately forging developers to strip their original concept of a original ending, signature genre, and defining gameplay for the sake something "new" to sell. I will agree and disagree with you here. Developers that continue a story past it's shelf-life are the no no's in my book. There's nothing wrong with more Halo games, more COD games, more Mass Effect games...so long as they leave the stories that have been told alone and bring a fresh take on gameplay or story elements. I'm completely fine with Mass Effect: Andromeda because it's a new story with a new character and a new setting. It takes place in the same universe as ME's 1-3 and that's where the similarities end. Shepard's story is done. And now it's time for Ryder's. Where it starts to fall apart is when the devs really do start milking for cash. Games like (let's keep with the thread topic) Final Fantasy 7: Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, Before Crisis, Last Order, Advent Children and the various usage of Cloud Strife in adverts that didn't really need him (like Final Fantasy Dissidia or Theaterythm). Now THAT's milking. They know that Cloud sells Final Fantasy and they'll use him in things both relevant and not relevant to sell a product. Hell, I think they even used his image to sell Final Fantasy 13.
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Xargen
Metal Gear
Kickin' names, taking ass.
Posts: 1,651
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Post by Xargen on Apr 6, 2017 7:10:22 GMT -5
I'd say it's not entirely the developers fault though... The fact they know Final Fantasy 7 stuff will sell is because the fans are constantly screaming for more FF7 content... Hell, they've been screaming for a FF7 remake since the PS3 was announced, probably earlier...
I honestly think it's a brave step doing a complete remake rather than a remaster, because it won't be the game a lot of people wanted, but I see it as a re-telling and I don't mind action games (I enjoyed Final Fantasy 15, and also the 13 series... They used Cloud's image to sell Lightning Returns btw, in the fact that his Soldier outfit and Buster Sword were pre-order bonuses) and I'm honestly excited to see new parts of Midgar, hear from a few new sides of the story and see which story they follow, be it the English translated one or have the actual proper story elements that got lost in the translation (Such as the fact that you're never actually following Sephiroth around the world)
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Apr 6, 2017 17:14:36 GMT -5
It's like if Halo ditched first-person-shooting and became the top-down RTS that Halo Wars is. Don't get me wrong, they can both exist, because Halo Wars (while still canon) is not considered part of the "Main Line." That status is reserved for the Halo games themselves (1-6). Or what if Halo turned into COD with iron sights, sprint... oh wait. Final Fantasy died completely the day 12 was released (its downfall began with 10) when it removed random encounters, turn-based combat, and committed a myriad of other smaller offenses. Would you add pre-rendered backgrounds/fixed camera to that list? I'd say it's not entirely the developers fault though... The fact they know Final Fantasy 7 stuff will sell is because the fans are constantly screaming for more FF7 content... Hell, they've been screaming for a FF7 remake since the PS3 was announced, probably earlier... I'm not sure what point you are making Xargen, how does the fans screaming for more FF7 lead to it being okay to make a game that is nothing like FF7? If the fans want more of something give them more of it not something different.
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Post by Greenfire32 on Apr 7, 2017 16:58:58 GMT -5
Or what if Halo turned into COD with iron sights, sprint... oh wait. I'm ok with that because it's still the same genre. An FPS is still an FPS whether or not you can look down the sights. In fact (cue dramatic music) I think it's a natural progression of an FPS to start out as an arcade from-the-hip shooter and turn into something a little more tactical. Especially when it involves something-something-military. I can guarantee you with relative certainty that if the technology was available at the time, Goldeneye would have had ADS and sprint. It's not a bad thing that games change and evolve over time, but what IS bad is if those games become something they're not. In my opinion, Halo has not become something that it isn't. It has changed, sure, it has evolved, sure, but it is not an RTS, nor is it a platform-adventure game. It's still very much an FPS. Now if you want to argue the lore and how ADS isn't really feasible in a Halo game, I'm there. Lore wise, it makes zero sense. But it also makes zero sense that there's recoil. And it also makes zero sense that water kills Spartans, but a dead drop from orbit barely phases them. Would you add pre-rendered backgrounds/fixed camera to that list? For Final Fantasy specifically? Not necessarily. I feel the "open world" is a natural progression of the JRPG Genre (just look at FF10 or even Lost Odyssey). That kind of setting wasn't really what made a Final Fantasy, at least...not in the same sense that that kind of setting is was made a Resident Evil. RE was built almost specifically for that kind of vantage point, whereas FF more so used that to give off the illusion of a large expansive world, without actually being one due to hardware limitations of the time. I'm not sure what point you are making Xargen, how does the fans screaming for more FF7 lead to it being okay to make a game that is nothing like FF7? If the fans want more of something give them more of it not something different. 100% The fans have been screaming for a graphically-updated FF7 for years (because the original looks like complete ass). As one of those fans, that's literally all we want. Updated graphics, same game. Maybe, MAYBE if you're feeling generous: some voice acting, but we don't NEED that for it to be great. Whatever the fuck FF7: 2017 edition is, it isn't what we've been wanting for years and years and years. This is a classic example of a company "listening" to it's fans. "You want more FF7?" *autistic screaming* "Here you goooooo!!!!" *releases FF7 themed coloring book* *crickets*
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Apr 8, 2017 5:13:50 GMT -5
I lol'd a crickets I also feel like making that into a video, we should collaborate. You do the graphics for the colouring book and ill edit it into a video!
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Xargen
Metal Gear
Kickin' names, taking ass.
Posts: 1,651
Now Playing: I PLAY THA VIDJA GAMES!
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Post by Xargen on Apr 9, 2017 10:30:55 GMT -5
I'm not sure what point you are making Xargen, how does the fans screaming for more FF7 lead to it being okay to make a game that is nothing like FF7? If the fans want more of something give them more of it not something different. It's more stuff in the world of FF7 though, with the characters and the lore... It's like getting more Star Wars, you have your Live Action movies then you get more Star Wars content via games and animated series and the like... Sure they're not more Live Action movies, but the content is there in another format for you to enjoy Also, I was mostly talking about things like Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Apr 9, 2017 14:33:03 GMT -5
Quick update video here I think I made my position and points a bit better in this one. Or what if Halo turned into COD with iron sights, sprint... oh wait. I'm ok with that because it's still the same genre. An FPS is still an FPS whether or not you can look down the sights. FPS games are very different the aren't all the same just like how all RPG's arent the same. When you introduces iron sights, regen health etc into a FPS game its no longer and run and gun game but I don't want to go off topic I just wanted to point out I don't agree with you.
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