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Post by JMMREVIEW on Feb 6, 2014 4:50:46 GMT -5
I havent watched this yet but I thought I would post it up in case anyone would like to watch. It is a debate scientists are now saying we shouldn't have because it makes it seem is if there is doubt in evolution.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on Feb 6, 2014 12:38:31 GMT -5
I have yet to watch this but plan to this weekend.
I had some personal thoughts typed in here but I don't want to offend anyone. I don't think we should be having these debates. It all sound like what we know vs. what we don't know. Kinda pointless... kinda. Yep.
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Post by rev86 on Feb 26, 2014 20:23:09 GMT -5
I have yet to watch this but plan to this weekend. I had some personal thoughts typed in here but I don't want to offend anyone. I don't think we should be having these debates. It all sound like what we know vs. what we don't know. Kinda pointless... kinda. Yep. I went on my own spiritual journey a long time ago and studied a lot of the religions around the world. It eventually lead me to become a devout Christian, and Even I think this is a silly debate. The way I see it, it's kind of like debating whether or not aliens are out there watching/ abducting us ect. Sure Theres lots of fun documentaries and mountains of declassified documents. Covering unexplained phenomenons that some might interpret to be said aliens, but until they come to us and make contact with the general public we will never really know. Same deal with god, you will never truly know! No real way to prove or disprove such a question. so why even bother debating it? Just be a good person and hope for the best.
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Xargen
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Kickin' names, taking ass.
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Post by Xargen on Feb 26, 2014 23:26:17 GMT -5
We could still find out about aliens if we find them first... People always think "Hyper-advanced!" when we think aliens, but there's also the possibility that yes there are aliens out there, but we're currently the most advanced species in the universe, or maybe there ARE hyper-advanced aliens out there and they haven't even found us (Space is pretty big yo) or even if they HAVE found us, what's to say they are even interested in us? Someone once attributed it to walking past an ant-hill, we don't often bother with ants, we don't kneel down to ants and say "Here, let us share technologies! Let us raise you up!" we just walk on past... We humans must be pretty full of ourselves to think we'd be interesting to another, highly advanced species
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Feb 27, 2014 4:04:32 GMT -5
Someone once attributed it to walking past an ant-hill, we don't often bother with ants That someone was Michio Kaku "shut up kid" what a legend. The thought the we are the most intelligent species in our galaxy is one thing but in the universe?!?! You can see why we once thought the earth was the center of the universe, our ego sickens me.
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Post by rev86 on Feb 27, 2014 4:41:39 GMT -5
Someone once attributed it to walking past an ant-hill, we don't often bother with ants That someone was Michio Kaku "shut up kid" what a legend. The thought the we are the most intelligent species in our galaxy is one thing but in the universe?!?! You can see why we once thought the earth was the center of the universe, our ego sickens me. also a great point! Our arrogance never does cease to amaze. Scientists are just now discovering that dogs and other creatures actually have feelings, and are much smarter than we ever gave them credit for. It took mainstream science almost 2000 years to find out what most any pet owners knew from day one!
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Feb 27, 2014 10:19:26 GMT -5
To be fair rev in those 2000 years religion has slowed science and scientists down. For example in 1600 Giordano Bruno proposed that the Sun was just another star (sounds crazy right) and for this he was found guilty of heresy by the catholic church and burned at the stake.
Scientists may seem slow at making new discoveries but when was the last religious discovery made? nothing new can be learnt from a 1900 year old book.
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Post by rev86 on Feb 27, 2014 12:17:17 GMT -5
To be fair rev in those 2000 years religion has slowed science and scientists down. For example in 1600 Giordano Bruno proposed that the Sun was just another star (sounds crazy right) and for this he was found guilty of heresy by the catholic church and burned at the stake. Scientists may seem slow at making new discoveries but when was the last religious discovery made? nothing new can be learnt from a 1900 year old book. Yes, I know. Amazing how much damage one can do with a fancy hat and some misplaced conviction. I remember that Galileo (I think) said the earth revolved around the sun, and was excommunicated! Meanwhile in the same period of time, the Nations of Islam were developing arithmetic and on the way to (allegedly) building the first aquifers. The Irony of the whole thing, is that they did it in the name of "Christ", and it was that Christ said to forgive your enemies and always love, and to never harm anyone. I don't think anywhere in the bible did he say burn people at the stake for believing in something different. Just as I am sure Muhammad never said anything about chopping peoples heads off for believing something different. When it comes to scripture, you can take it to mean just about anything if you twist the words enough. And that is exactly what they did. Extremism, no matter what the flavor. will always hold us back from progress. EDIT: and to answer your question about relegious discoveries, other than doomy youtube videos with spooky music droning on about the end times, there has not been much!
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Feb 28, 2014 7:01:18 GMT -5
I don't think anywhere in the bible did he say burn people at the stake for believing in something different. Just as I am sure Muhammad never said anything about chopping peoples heads off for believing something different. Ohhhh so close, I am sorry but that was almost a perfect post I agree with everything except this part. Lets start with a very easy one, the penalty for apostasy (leaving the faith) in Islam is death... Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them" The bible is also VERY MUCH against believing in something (or anything) different. Spoiler
Kill Nonbelievers
"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests.
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Homosexuals "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions "Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed." (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Like I said I agree with everything you said but I cant agree with that part. I am also glad to see someone with different view to my own on this forum, religious posts were all a little one sided until now please stay!lol
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Post by rev86 on Feb 28, 2014 8:43:57 GMT -5
I don't think anywhere in the bible did he say burn people at the stake for believing in something different. Just as I am sure Muhammad never said anything about chopping peoples heads off for believing something different. Ohhhh so close, I am sorry but that was almost a perfect post I agree with everything except this part. Lets start with a very easy one, the penalty for apostasy (leaving the faith) in Islam is death... Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them" The bible is also VERY MUCH against believing in something (or anything) different. {Spoiler}
Kill Nonbelievers
"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests.
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Homosexuals "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions "Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed." (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Like I said I agree with everything you said but I cant agree with that part. I am also glad to see someone with different view to my own on this forum, religious posts were all a little one sided until now please stay!lol very informative post! I will be sure to think about it. EDIT: As for Islam, I do not have enough understanding of the Qua'ran to check the context, so I've got to take that scripture on it's face. But one can not take a single scripture alone and take only it's meaning. Context is important. I don't have the time to go back and check the context of all of those, but let me give a quick example. the Term "Hell" in the King James Version of the bible. If you research every scripture where hell comes up in, and check the original Hebrew text, you will find that King James turned many, many different words into "hell" because he, or his editors believed them to mean the same thing. BUT these words did NOT all mean the same thing, and were actually used in MANY different contexts. For example, the "Lake of fire" "Gehenna" and "Hades" Were all translated into one word, Hell. Never-mind that each of those words mean something entirely different. Gehenna was a literal trash pit where the people would throw their garbage into. When Jesus spoke of it, he used the term Gehenna because he knew it was one people would relate to, not because he meant they we're actually going to eternally burn in hell fire for ever and ever. Hades is the Greek term for the underworld. Which was used at the time again as an illustration. "The Lake of fire" on the other hand, is also (supposedly) a literal place that burns with sulfur. But it too is used in figurative and literal ways. It is used literally in this passage Matthew 25:41 ESV “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. After the Judgement, The Devil and his angels will be thrown into this lake. BUT it is used in the figurative here Revelation 20:14 ESV Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. Obviously, Death is a natural part of life, and Hades is a (alleged) place. They can not be "Destroyed" But this was used in the figurative sense to mean the end of Death and suffering. In short, context is everything. There are scriptures In the bible I have seen used to justify the theory that Jesus was an ancient Alien! You take any scripture without it's proper background, and it can mean just about anything. As for me leaving. No worries, I am not going to run away . I am used to people with different opinions than my own. As I am in the Jehovah's witness faith. (long story short we are considered a heretical faith by mainstream Christianity) I am used to being told that I'm going into the furnace of fire quite often LOL. In the end, the small details matter little. Because what does matter is that we try to do the right thing. .
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Feb 28, 2014 9:33:32 GMT -5
In short, context is everything. There are scriptures In the bible I have seen used to justify the theory that Jesus was an ancient Alien! You take any scripture without it's proper background, and it can mean just about anything. Thats pretty interesting actually, to ancient people (the people who wrote the bible) gods were planets (like Jupiter) and heaven was literally in space. There is never a context to kill someone for what they THINK, a case can be made for killing a person because of their actions. The examples I gave have not been misinterpreted then are pretty clear. In the end, the small details matter little. Because what does matter is that we try to do the right thing. . Doing the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing is very different to doing it out of fear. What happens when the fear goes away? do you still do good things?
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Post by rev86 on Feb 28, 2014 10:27:36 GMT -5
In short, context is everything. There are scriptures In the bible I have seen used to justify the theory that Jesus was an ancient Alien! You take any scripture without it's proper background, and it can mean just about anything. Thats pretty interesting actually, to ancient people (the people who wrote the bible) gods were planets (like Jupiter) and heaven was literally in space. There is never a context to kill someone for what they THINK, a case can be made for killing a person because of their actions. The examples I gave have not been misinterpreted then are pretty clear. In the end, the small details matter little. Because what does matter is that we try to do the right thing. . Doing the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing is very different to doing it out of fear. What happens when the fear goes away? do you still do good things? certainly not. No one has the right to kill someone just because they think they are in the right. I didn't mean to say they had a right to murder anyone. I meant the context of the scriptures being interpreted. Of course. Fear does not sway me. I try to be the best person possible simply because I choose to. Not for any other reason.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on Feb 28, 2014 15:26:41 GMT -5
I had this epiphany awhile back. I was thinking to myself what the pious see God as. They see him/her as beauty, reason, understanding, the creator.
Then I thought about what beauty is. Beauty is a creation of complexity + understanding ~ simplicity = reason. Meaning, man can create god and heaven and believe in his creation. It is still HIS creation.
The human animal is not built as a vessel of black/white, right/wrong. We simply can not all believe and trust in scientific fact alone. It's in our nature to question and in questioning will breed lies and truths.
What this all boils down to is that hard scientific facts are just compiled data from a species that has yet to understand even a fraction of this world.
Is there a God? I don't know. What I do know is that I am here, I wasn't before. I will be "there" in the future. I hope. We have no idea where we came from and should not base our entire lives off of something we just can't fully understand. The christian bible is a great example of a collection of stories that are a mix of good and bad moral views. It is a very old book and out of date. It's as simple as that. Accept that you don't understand. Do the right thing. Embrace complete prosperity, freedom, happiness for all who are willing to embrace it.
When you die and your perception comes to an end you will not care, the light will go out, maybe you will perceive your last fraction of a second alive as euphoric. That will be you last experience, it may be heavenly. Then you will be gone. Where? Somewhere, nowhere, for you, it doesn't matter. I believe there is a source, maybe many that have allowed us to evolve into a species that can perceive and understand.
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Mar 1, 2014 4:05:40 GMT -5
I imagine what happens after you die is much the same as what happened before you were born.
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Post by rev86 on Mar 1, 2014 8:53:08 GMT -5
I had this epiphany awhile back. I was thinking to myself what the pious see God as. They see him/her as beauty, reason, understanding, the creator. Then I thought about what beauty is. Beauty is a creation of complexity + understanding ~ simplicity = reason. Meaning, man can create god and heaven and believe in his creation. It is still HIS creation. The human animal is not built as a vessel of black/white, right/wrong. We simply can not all believe and trust in scientific fact alone. It's in our nature to question and in questioning will breed lies and truths. What this all boils down to is that hard scientific facts are just compiled data from a species that has yet to understand even a fraction of this world. Is there a God? I don't know. What I do know is that I am here, I wasn't before. I will be "there" in the future. I hope. We have no idea where we came from and should not base our entire lives off of something we just can't fully understand. The christian bible is a great example of a collection of stories that are a mix of good and bad moral views. It is a very old book and out of date. It's as simple as that. Accept that you don't understand. Do the right thing. Embrace complete prosperity, freedom, happiness for all who are willing to embrace it. When you die and your perception comes to an end you will not care, the light will go out, maybe you will perceive your last fraction of a second alive as euphoric. That will be you last experience, it may be heavenly. Then you will be gone. Where? Somewhere, nowhere, for you, it doesn't matter. I believe there is a source, maybe many that have allowed us to evolve into a species that can perceive and understand. well said.
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