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Post by JMMREVIEW on Nov 11, 2014 6:30:10 GMT -5
Even since my first videos I have been strongly against regenerating health, sprinting and iron sights. As Greenfire32 said it has become industry standard now, nearly every FPS franchise is turning into a COD clone. Can you imagine waking up tomorrow to watch a trailer of Half-Life 3 and find it has iron sights and regenerating health? I shudder at the thought. My question to everyone reading this is, what is wrong with regenerating health, sprinting and iron sights anyway? I want to once and for all pin down what makes it so repulsive to gamers of the GE and PD generation. If possible give examples of games in your reply, I think it would be good to make a video about this.
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Nov 11, 2014 6:37:10 GMT -5
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Silent Sputnik
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Post by Silent Sputnik on Nov 11, 2014 11:25:19 GMT -5
My question to everyone reading this is, what is wrong with regenerating health, sprinting and iron sights anyway? I want to once and for all pin down what makes it so repulsive to gamers of the GE and PD generation. If possible give examples of games in your reply, I think it would be good to make a video about this. Usually, when a game offers sprinting as a means of moving around a map quickly, it comes at a cost of being at a disadvantage when getting into a gunfight. Thus, this type of sprinting greatly encourages camping and slow, positional gameplay such as what is found in the CoD series (Read: Damned Boring). This is in stark contrast to arena shooters such as Unreal and Quake which offer movement options which increase the flow and technicality of the action without being an automatic disadvantage to aggressive players. The same problem can be said of iron sights. Mobility is greatly decreased as a trade for increased damage when a game has iron sights. This leads to campy, boring shooters. I don't have huge issues with regenerating health. Shooters NEED to offer a strong incentive for players to move around the map, controlling important items etc. This is the basis of every reputable competitive shooter ever. Having non-regenerating health with health/armor pickups is one way to create this strong incentive. However, other incentives can be used in its place. Halo, for example, has power items and weapons which must be carefully timed and prepared for. This is the root cause of all of the dynamism and strategy of the game. As long as this motivation to move and control the map exists, then regenerating health isn't an absolute necessity. Regenerating health is never an option for a single-player campaign, however. I've never enjoyed a CoD or Halo SP campaign ever.
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MMCC0203
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Post by MMCC0203 on Nov 11, 2014 17:45:25 GMT -5
Not sure how that resembles Titanfall. If anything it's Advanced Warfare-ish. After reading more about this I don't actually see iron sights being a problem. It's been confirmed that hip fire is just as accurate/effective.
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Post by Greenfire32 on Nov 11, 2014 20:26:53 GMT -5
Even since my first videos My question to everyone reading this is, what is wrong with regenerating health, sprinting and iron sights anyway? Nothing really. GE:007 was good and Perfect Dark was GREAT...at the time (PD:360 is still fun, but you can reeeeeaaaaaly feel how much it's aged). And while those games WERE great for their time, they aren't so much anymore. Why is that? Well it's due partly to the physical controller and partly to the hardware's rendering capabilities. First off: The N64's controller was a single analog stick with buttons that favored the right handed. While the C-Buttons COULD function as a "pseudo-right analog stick," the fact that they were buttons meant that their "range of motion" was severely limited compared to the "left analog stick" that was built in. This eventually led the way to "strafing" in order to get the most out of the limited-yet-revolutionary concept at the time. Combine that with the fact that now 4 of the 10 buttons are now devoted to just moving...so dev's made running speeds faster on the whole in order to save the other buttons for more critical functions like aiming, reloading, or shooting. It also depends on the lore of the game. Does it make sense to have sprinting in a game where you play as a secret government spy (007), or would it make more sense in a game where you play as a soldier on the literal beaches of Normady? Plus when you only have 50mbs of RAM to work with, things like sprint animations and iron sight view changes become luxuries rather than necessities. This is what is generally referred to as "Arcade shooter." No jump, sprint, or iron sights (just a cursor). No fancy animations (or VERY simple ones) and no super elaborate kill methods (like Reach's assassination animations), just shooting. Now, there's NOTHING wrong with Arcade shooters, and I quite like them, but they're also...empty at their core. They FEEL like a small-scale game. They LOOK like a small-scale game. And they PLAY like a small-scale game. Again, nothing wrong with that (if I only have 30mins left on my lunch break, I'm more likely to boot up Serious Sam then I am Halo) No health regen works in an Arcade Shooter, because the missions are generally smaller, less complicated (go here, plant bomb, escape) and that's why they can do it. Games like Halo or CoD NEED health Regen because there's more enemies on screen, there's more ways to get hurt, more ways to die and missions are, simply put, fucking massive in comparison. You can beat a level of GE:007 on Hardest difficulty in the time span of like 4mins. I laugh at people who think the same should be true for shooters in the same scope as Halo or CoD. That said, health regen NEEDS to make sense in the universe of [insert shooter here]. For example: Halo has regenerating shields. CoD has...magical red jelly applied directly to the eyes? I get what they're going for here, but it would make more sense if soldiers had some kind of regenerating armor or something. All in all, I think a BIG problem with people my age group (and to an extent, the people of this forum) is that they tend to think their generation of games was the best and to hell with the rest. It's a GOOD thing that FPS's have evolved over time. If Halo had stayed the same as it had been the first time it was released, we'd be talking about how Halo AND CoD are the literally the same game over and over and over. Also, CoD is literally the same game over and over and over. Please stop buying it. I want to once and for all pin down what makes it so repulsive to gamers of the GE and PD generation. I honestly don't know. I, for one, welcome the changes. Shooters feel so much BETTER thanks to me being able to "actually hold a gun" (iron sights) and make a mad dash for cover in order to "catch my breath." I think a lot of people need to get over their nostalgia and embrace the genre they love most instead of going all, "In my day you had to shoot up hill both ways in the snow" on it.
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Post by rev86 on Nov 12, 2014 1:48:12 GMT -5
I dont think Ironsights are too bad. From a gameplay perspective at least. What really gets me is that it obscures the view. I can remember a lot of the areas and environments from games like perfect dark, halo, Shogo ect. Even the ones that were more plain. I don't remember most of them because they we're dazzling or incredible, just the fact that I didn't have an ironsight obscuring 90% of my vision for most of the time i was playing gave me the chance to actually look around.
I just wish it could be optional or something.
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Nov 12, 2014 4:06:49 GMT -5
I think a lot of people need to get over their nostalgia and embrace the genre they love most instead of going all, "In my day you had to shoot up hill both ways in the snow" on it. Well that just brightened up my day Thanks for the detailed reply Greenfire32 MMCC0203 rev86 Silent Sputnik I am in work now but when I get home I am going to have a proper read through it all and reply.
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Nov 12, 2014 14:37:24 GMT -5
I am not sure what you mean here Mobility is greatly decreased I'm am sure Blade Runner will agree here, not firing "from the hip" slows everything down. Shooters NEED to offer a strong incentive for players to move around the map, controlling important items etc. This is the basis of every reputable competitive shooter ever. I strongly agree with this, I used to play a lot of Battlefield Modern Combat 2 online, on it you couldn't win the match unless you captured flags which meant you could camp all day but it doesn't get you anywhere. COD games give even more incentive for camping because you get the power weapons from kill streaks so you can camp to get them. I've never enjoyed a CoD or Halo SP campaign ever. I am enjoying them both less and less with each release, Halo 5 was really boring for me.
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Nov 12, 2014 14:49:25 GMT -5
All in all, I think a BIG problem with people my age group (and to an extent, the people of this forum) is that they tend to think their generation of games was the best and to hell with the rest. I don't think that the games of my generation are the best games, I think the mechanics used in the games of my generation are the best. The most recent game released that had firing from the hip, no sprint and no regen heath was Left 4 Dead 1 and 2 and they were both great games. The last Survival Horror game was Alien Isolation and it was great too. Current games are good when developers get the mechanics right. It's a GOOD thing that FPS's have evolved over time. If Halo had stayed the same as it had been the first time it was released, we'd be talking about how Halo AND CoD are the literally the same game over and over and over. The problem is Halo (and every other FPS) is evolving into COD!
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Nov 12, 2014 14:52:22 GMT -5
I dont think Ironsights are too bad. From a gameplay perspective at least. What really gets me is that it obscures the view. As a joke I used the WORST iron sight of all time over the top of Goldeneye in this video
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Post by rev86 on Nov 12, 2014 15:33:58 GMT -5
I dont think Ironsights are too bad. From a gameplay perspective at least. What really gets me is that it obscures the view. As a joke I used the WORST iron sight of all time over the top of Goldeneye in this video yep, that is pretty terrible, sadly it's par for the course at this point
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Silent Sputnik
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Post by Silent Sputnik on Nov 13, 2014 4:24:34 GMT -5
I am not sure what you mean here I mean that in a game where you die moments after someone sees you, the whole game revolves around positioning yourself on the map wisely, and not around your combat skills or anything that's particularly fun. COD games give even more incentive for camping because you get the power weapons from kill streaks so you can camp to get them. Ah yes, excellent point. It actively encourages camping.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on Nov 13, 2014 23:21:10 GMT -5
It's time for another FPS innovation or at least that's what the publishers think. Activision, Microsoft, etc. have gotten the whips out and are pushing Halo, COD, and Battlefield into improbable territory. I first thought COD as becoming more like Halo and vice verse but now I see that they are all forming into a new standard for the genre.
Since the late 90's FPS games have taken great strides to replicate the artsy fartsy (gun-fu) action movies of the day including Leon: The Professional, Nikita, and The Matrix and if we keep going this route we will be wall-running building destroying, mech driving, roof-jumping action hero we all wanted to be when we saw those movies.... but they're built on a foundation that caters to modest armor-wearing cyborg, and the near-future soldier we were playing as a decade ago, and that's where they get it wrong every time. EVERY TIME!
In my opinion, Halo 4, Call of Duty: Black Ops II, and it's annual sequels SHOULDN'T BE HALO/COD GAMES! If there was ever a God man killed him with this level up stupidity. Advanced Warfare is fun to play in short bursts. I really love the level of directional movement in that game. No rooftop or storm drain is safe from my gunfire and that's awesome..... BUT IT'S NOT CALL OF DUTY!!!.....
They use to advertise playing Call of Duty on what we in the U.S.A. called Veterans Day like it was some kind of paying respect to play it and when I played the FINAL Call of Duty game we call World at War, there was a sense of pride, and duty, to playing it. As shallow as the story-line and set-pieces where even then, I was fighting against evil. I answered the call, just like the commercials said.... But then I started seeing the future in games:S
343i is a bit of a different story. I was open to the idea of more Halo games, but while many probably feel that Master Chief is Microsofts' baby, they wold be wrong. It was Bungies baby and 343i should have left it the hell alone but instead they are now retroactively melding together their Halo 4 cannon into Bungies Combat Evolved and Halo 5 cannon into Halo 2 and tainting these games with there fingerprints for future generations to see. Why? Because they saw what Nintendo did with Super Mario All Stars. And want to sell you the Master Chief Collection again in 2034. HA. HA.
The bottom line is, they need to let these franchises die and continue these advancements in FPS gameplay under new brands while the likes of Halo, COD, Battlefield, etc. still have an identity because when i look at the latest games in each respective series I don't immediately recognize what franchise I'm playing anymore.
Having said all that. Right now I'm playing Portal, and I'm buying an Xbox One and The Master Chief Collection on the 27th of this month. I became such an invested gamer by playing FPS games and I can't wait to experience Halo all over again as it originally was, bad graphics and all. I love the option for new graphics but not as much as the preservation of the old. Games are art through and through and that's something I appreciate. So ill be having my first-go-round with all original graphics/sound to take time and appreciate the spectacle they still are and bask in a time when Halo and it's rivals were more unique.
Good night.
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Silent Sputnik
A Hind D!?
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Post by Silent Sputnik on Nov 14, 2014 6:59:13 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, Halo 3 & CoD4 were the last games in their respective series. I spent days of my time enjoying those 2 games. Ever since then, I haven't deemed any modern shooters remotely worthy of my time and money.
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Nov 14, 2014 7:33:35 GMT -5
I love the option for new graphics but not as much as the preservation of the old. Just while you are on that point, when I played Halo CE Anniversary with a friend on co-op we would use the old graphics far more than the new graphics, simply because the new graphics were too dark and it was difficult to see the enemies.
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