|
Post by JMMREVIEW on Feb 24, 2013 4:54:31 GMT -5
I think what he is saying is went you prove something it doesn't need someone to believe in it, it has been proven to be true
|
|
|
Post by Blade Runner 07 on Feb 25, 2013 1:10:36 GMT -5
What I mean is what's true and what's false are ultimately based on ones perspective. Now my personal perspective is that science presents truth of our current physical world science creates medicine after all. It's not an evil.
I came to the conclusion of my last post as a result of being surrounded by a bunch of closed minded religious people that look at me like I'm some kind of lost soul when I present them with an understating.
These people smile through their teeth at me to avoid a healthy debate that might have them considering something new. Then they turn around and post intolerant, hate laced crap about my country's elected leader, homosexuals, and people of different races because they either think they are among people who believe as they do, or are just saying it for laughs.
To the people of this forum, that is where I stand and I am not ashamed.
The philosophy of my previous post is the only thing that keeps me sane at times. These people live in their own world with their own truth. I would never deny them happiness by denying their freedom of religion but ill be dammed to hell and the absence of all I hold "true" if I didn't stand against their ignorance.
I'm usually a laid back guy but I thought I would share that philosophical stuff on the science board of all places.
|
|
Xargen
Metal Gear
Kickin' names, taking ass.
Posts: 1,651
Now Playing: I PLAY THA VIDJA GAMES!
|
Post by Xargen on Feb 26, 2013 12:20:49 GMT -5
The latest video from "Minute Physics" which is a great channel, if you're not already subbed, hit that subscribe button =p
|
|
|
Post by JMMREVIEW on Feb 26, 2013 12:31:30 GMT -5
I always knew I was the center of the universe...
|
|
MMCC0203
Deepthroat
Posts: 658
Now Playing: Fallout 4
Favorite Game: LoZ: Majora's Mask
|
Post by MMCC0203 on Feb 27, 2013 17:53:36 GMT -5
What I mean is what's true and what's false are ultimately based on ones perspective.... Yes and no. Subjectively speaking sure someone can hold anything to be true, but that doesn't change the fact that they could be objectively wrong and thus delusional.
|
|
|
Post by JMMREVIEW on Feb 27, 2013 18:16:54 GMT -5
Depends how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go, for example it is very hard to prove that you are not sleeping right now. consciousness in itself is very hard to define.
Science proves very little (that is why everything is a theory) Maths is the only thing that can really prove things.
|
|
MMCC0203
Deepthroat
Posts: 658
Now Playing: Fallout 4
Favorite Game: LoZ: Majora's Mask
|
Post by MMCC0203 on Feb 28, 2013 11:23:00 GMT -5
Depends how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go, for example it is very hard to prove that you are not sleeping right now. consciousness in itself is very hard to define. Science proves very little (that is why everything is a theory) Maths is the only thing that can really prove things. I have to disagree. We can play the "what if?" game all we want, but if there's no evidence to support the idea that we are living in a dream world or Matrix then we have no reason to doubt that what we are experiencing now is reality. As for your second point it represents one of the most widely-held misconceptions about science in general. I would argue that 'theory' is one of the most misused words in the English language. A theory is not merely a guess or hypothesis, but rather a collection of facts, evidence, and empirical observations that is in itself essentially a fact. Gravity is a theory, and I'm guessing you probably don't label gravity as a guess or a hypothesis since you experience it everyday. Your last point about math and science proving "very little"......What??? First of all math and science are the same thing. One wouldn't be possible without the other. Second, science can prove pretty much everything since we live in a natural and mostly predictable universe. The things that it initially can't answer (metaphysical questions about reality, religious ideas such as God and purpose, ethics/morality, etc.) belong to the realm of philosophy, if only temporarily. Everything that is science today was once philosophy to the likes of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle; we have no reason to believe that this won't be the case thousands of years from now with the topics of philosophy that concern us today. Simply put, science is all around us. The house/apartment that you wake up in everyday. The clothes on your back. The computer that you use to access these forums. The car that you ride to school or work. All of this is a testament to the fact that, well... (Sorry for the long ass post)
|
|
|
Post by JMMREVIEW on Feb 28, 2013 11:53:07 GMT -5
I get what you are saying, science works... and religion doesn't I didnt say math proves very little I said math is the only thing you can fully prove (formulas). For example Einstein's theory of relativity one of the most brilliant theories of all time and one that has given us insight into how the universe works is under question.
Theories will always be under question, they can never be proven that is why they are theories With science there is always a shadow of a doubt, and that is why I love it, scientists are not arrogant but religion is arrogant...
|
|
MMCC0203
Deepthroat
Posts: 658
Now Playing: Fallout 4
Favorite Game: LoZ: Majora's Mask
|
Post by MMCC0203 on Feb 28, 2013 12:29:46 GMT -5
I get what you are saying, science works... and religion doesn't I didnt say math proves very little I said math is the only thing you can fully prove (formulas). For example Einstein's theory of relativity one of the most brilliant theories of all time and one that has given us insight into how the universe works is under question. Theories will always be under question, they can never be proven that is why they are theories With science there is always a shadow of a doubt, and that is why I love it, scientists are not arrogant but religion is arrogant... I'm confused by your standard of proof. If we're talking about absolute proof and certainty then sure, nothing of the sort exists (even for math since, like I said, it's part of science). Certainly things can be proven though, albeit just beyond a reasonable doubt. We have no reason to doubt what we hold to be true scientifically today. The theory of gravity is observable empirically and rationally in everyday life so it's easily proved. The same can be said for evolution, thermodynamics, relativity, and any other theory of science. Fact and theory are interchangeable terms really.
|
|
|
Post by JMMREVIEW on Feb 28, 2013 13:14:17 GMT -5
The thing is when people defend the status of the word theory they use gravity as an example but gravity is one of the most flimsy theories! It still isn't even fully understood, for example no one knows why it is so weak. All we can say is it is the most logical explanation (until someone discovers a better one) and that is ture with everything in science. That was the point I was trying to make
|
|
MMCC0203
Deepthroat
Posts: 658
Now Playing: Fallout 4
Favorite Game: LoZ: Majora's Mask
|
Post by MMCC0203 on Feb 28, 2013 13:48:06 GMT -5
The thing is when people defend the status of the word theory they use gravity as an example but gravity is one of the most flimsy theories! It still isn't even fully understood, for example no one knows why it is so weak. All we can say is it is the most logical explanation (until someone discovers a better one) and that is ture with everything in science. That was the point I was trying to make Regardless of whether or not gravity is actually a "flimsy" theory my point still stands. A theory is for all intents and purposes a fact until new evidence arises which brings said theory into question. Also, the truth value of a theory isn't necessarily undermined if we don't understand every aspect of that theory. Nothing is ever fully understood I would argue. Our sense experience is too limited (despite technological advances) and our existence in this universe will likely be too short.
|
|
Xargen
Metal Gear
Kickin' names, taking ass.
Posts: 1,651
Now Playing: I PLAY THA VIDJA GAMES!
|
Post by Xargen on Feb 28, 2013 13:50:02 GMT -5
I wouldn't say "Any other theory of Science"... The ones you state have been around for a while now, and have been tweaked and added to to encompass what we learn about that field... If you think I'm mistaken in this, then go ahead and tell me right now that String Theory is definitely true or false Also; uk.ign.com/articles/2012/12/14/scientists-ask-are-we-all-part-of-the-matrixAlso also, hell no gravity isn't weak! Stick your head in a black hole, tell me how weak the gravity is Honestly I think that gravity would be the key to moving faster than the speed of light (If there is any such way of doing so... Things have been recorded at moving faster than the speed of light already, but I doubt you wanna be shot out of a super massive black hole in one of those jets that shoot out from the center of galaxies...)
|
|
|
Post by JMMREVIEW on Feb 28, 2013 14:01:55 GMT -5
So MMCC if I said I had a theory that there is a teapot in orbit around the moon and you can't prove it wrong (which you cant) then that's a fact? You can't disprove god either is his existence fact then too?
|
|
Xargen
Metal Gear
Kickin' names, taking ass.
Posts: 1,651
Now Playing: I PLAY THA VIDJA GAMES!
|
Post by Xargen on Feb 28, 2013 14:05:04 GMT -5
In the most basic of terms; A theory is something put forward to explain how something works, and if ever it is proven wrong, even once, it is debunked and it has to be started from scratch
|
|
|
Post by JMMREVIEW on Feb 28, 2013 14:12:26 GMT -5
Right so its not a fact and the tea pot theory still holds true
|
|