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Post by Mr.Spinks on May 10, 2015 11:19:40 GMT -5
So that's why I get shouted at, when I walk around the street in a thong and fishnet stockings...
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on May 10, 2015 11:30:43 GMT -5
That's absolutely true JMM. Guys are built with more muscle so it stands to reason that a manual labor job would be better suited to a man. However, a woman being told that she can't do manual labor because she is a woman, and then looked down upon or ridiculed for assuming the "weaker" role implied by that scenarios is discussing.
The majority of men will always be inherently stronger than the majority of woman. Fine. For one sex to allow the other the opportunity to participate and flourish in implied gender rolls of the other and NOT be ridiculed for it is key to getting over all of this "feminism crap".
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Silent Sputnik
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Post by Silent Sputnik on May 10, 2015 11:44:47 GMT -5
It won't change as long as we keep committing the crime of denying our sons and daughters the same opportunities of the opposite sex. Things will begin to get better the day a mother tells her daughter that it's okay and even necessary to learn how to work with tools and learn math and science. The same when a father tells his son that child care, cooking, and sewing is not "woman's work". THEN things will change. The more free a country is, the more differences there are between male and female work choices. The inherent differences between men and women will not and should not be 'fixed'. Women simply don't like the STEM fields. They prefer working socially supportive jobs with lower pay.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on May 10, 2015 12:11:15 GMT -5
The perceptions of gender roles are the only thing that needs fixing. That, and equal pay for woman. I would never push for 50/50 woman and men on the construction site or in the field of child care. I am pro-freedom.
I'll only push that if a woman wants to change motor oil, design a better airplane, or be an Alaskan crab fisherman, she should be given every equal opportunity to do so and for the same pay as a man. I'm not talking about affirmative action either. I'm talking about telling a little boy that if he wants to learn to play the flute, or be a nurse when he grows up then he has as much support from society as I do now at being a forklift driver. Same for a girl that wants to be a fireman, or a truck driver.
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Silent Sputnik
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Post by Silent Sputnik on May 12, 2015 10:31:31 GMT -5
That, and equal pay for woman. So you're suggesting that women should go into higher paying jobs, work full-time more often, choose dangerous careers, work more overtime, and take less leave? Sounds like its their problem to me. And if they don't want to do it, that's freedom for ya.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on May 12, 2015 10:46:59 GMT -5
Women should do what they want without any limitations put on them by society.
A woman should bet paid the same amount for the same amount of work a man does. If I get paid 8 per hour for cleaning floors, she should get paid the same for the same job. Ya know, some would argue that this idea is flawed because woman just naturally have to work harder to keep up in certain jobs. I was referring to the fact that womans paychecks get taxed more than mens and this extends to salary resulting in women making less for no apparent reason other than sexism.
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Xargen
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Post by Xargen on May 12, 2015 11:12:38 GMT -5
Do they get taxed more? I saw a video where it was explained that if you take things like personal choice etc into account the wage gap all but disappears... There are SOME places that are behind the times and don't pay women as much as men, but these are the minority these days, and most places WILL pay the same amount regardless of gender... Though that's the first I've ever heard about women being taxed more than men
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on May 12, 2015 11:40:49 GMT -5
Yeah it's true but it's hard to track with people having different jobs and secretive about their income...
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Silent Sputnik
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Post by Silent Sputnik on May 12, 2015 13:29:43 GMT -5
A woman should bet paid the same amount for the same amount of work a man does. If I get paid 8 per hour for cleaning floors, she should get paid the same for the same job. They already do, broadly speaking. If they were paid less, then employers would just hire women instead of men to save money. Capitalism corrects biases like that.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on May 12, 2015 13:54:59 GMT -5
Well then I guess everything between the sexes is fair. Yay capitolism!
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pootle
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Post by pootle on Jan 22, 2016 2:39:11 GMT -5
You don't speak of feminism in the sense that most of us practice it - you're referring to the women who go out of their way to incite hatred between the sexes and are generally man-haters. That isn't what feminism is, for the majority.
Feminism might have been about women's struggle to end male chauvinism once upon a time; and indeed it was at one point purely a movement to ensure the equal rights of women alone. For most of us though it is about a great deal more than that. It's a commitment to the idea that society can eradicate the ideology of domination that is largely evident on lots of levels - not just those related to gender. An opposition to discrimination, exploitation, and oppression of people due to their gender, sexual orientation, race, class... many things.
You don't agree with it, that's cool. Not asking everyone to conform to my socialist standards - but at least try to be respectful of other people's beliefs. What's 'crap' to you, is actually quite important to a lot of other people.
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Jan 22, 2016 6:08:50 GMT -5
pootle I am pretty sure Mr.Spinks is talking about the handful of people who give feminism a bad name, I would hope there is no one on this forum who is against gender equality. Anything after equality has nothing to do with feminism. I think the title is wrong, it should be "The crap people who claim to be feminist say"
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Post by MGNoxa on Jan 22, 2016 6:12:31 GMT -5
You don't speak of feminism in the sense that most of us practice it - you're referring to the women who go out of their way to incite hatred between the sexes and are generally man-haters. That isn't what feminism is, for the majority. Feminism might have been about women's struggle to end male chauvinism once upon a time; and indeed it was at one point purely a movement to ensure the equal rights of women alone. For most of us though it is about a great deal more than that. It's a commitment to the idea that society can eradicate the ideology of domination that is largely evident on lots of levels - not just those related to gender. An opposition to discrimination, exploitation, and oppression of people due to their gender, sexual orientation, race, class... many things. You don't agree with it, that's cool. Not asking everyone to conform to my socialist standards - but at least try to be respectful of other people's beliefs. What's 'crap' to you, is actually quite important to a lot of other people. Two questions but first I massively agree with you when it comes to respect. I try to be respectful of other peoples beliefs but at the same time it's hard on the internet because you can go from 0 to 10/10 in a matter of seconds and when there isn't anyone there to provide a counterpoint it can result in what seems like disrespect. I'm a newish member to the site and I've posted a bit every now and then but I can tell you that the people here aren't trying to be offensive. It's just how people are on the internet, sometimes a middle ground can never be found even if someone is trying to discuss from two opposite points it can very easily end up in an argument over something that has little relevance to the subject. It frustrates me but I think 99% of people on the internet are guilty of this and I certainly am. Okay so first question, isn't what you just described feminism as just egalitarianism? I haven't looked into any movements but from the outside that's what egalitarianism looks like to me. (I don't label myself as anything I just see everyone as an individual and judge them as an individual, no idea if that has a name.) Second, seeing as we're on a site that's primarily video games, what do you think of Feminist Frequency and the "SJW's" that are trying to change games? Sorry if this post comes across as aggressive or interrogating, all my friends say my typing comes across as angry. It's something I'm trying to work on.
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Jan 22, 2016 9:46:14 GMT -5
MGNoxa I don't know much about egalitarianism but the difference is there is no emphasis for women's rights. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" - United States Declaration of Independence Equality for women is a social issue and it is built into our language "mankind", all "men" are created equal. The ironic thing is that "that all men are created equal" was written at a time when people were kept as slaves. So to answer your question isn't feminism as just egalitarianism? No because egalitarianism fails to address gender equality.
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Post by MGNoxa on Jan 22, 2016 10:39:51 GMT -5
So to answer your question isn't feminism as just egalitarianism? No because egalitarianism fails to address gender equality. I thought it was all people are equal not just gender or race. Which is the one I'm getting it mixed up for? Definition of Egalitarian "Believing in or based on the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities" I haven't looked into it that much I just thought that's what it was.
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