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Post by JMMREVIEW on Oct 27, 2015 14:45:32 GMT -5
WARNING SPOILERS!!! Really interesting video about Halo 5 here from our newest member MGNoxaThe video mostly focuses on the story but you can see how the story bleeds into the gameplay and taints the Halo we used to love.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on Oct 27, 2015 15:13:22 GMT -5
Haven't watched the video yet but I'm pretty sure 343 building a story in the expanded universe is what went wrong...
I've been known for hating on 343 industries recently, and I was very prejudice against Halo 5 in the last few months, but can you blame me? Halo 5 isnt even close to what a Halo game was a decade ago. I don't blame a series for evolving, but what it's evolving into makes all the difference.
I know I'll never get anyone to admit that halo should have probably died with the absence of Bungies involvement, but it's complete asinine to keep buying these games at this point. You can say it's just for the story but look what I have done. Less than 24 hours from launch, I got the story.
I love the Bungie games. I'm hurt at the thought at the missed opportunities the post-Bungie lore consists of. 343 could have made a sequel to Halo 3 with Halo 4, but instead they made it there own thing. They looked to pre-existing lore to build a story upon, and the competition to build upon the gameplay found in Reach. In doing that, the 343 Halo universe underminds both the artistic direction of any original story and the continuity of the entire series. It's kinda distasteful. Halo 5 is not a game as much as an interactive movie built to keep milking the cash cow that put Xbox on the map.
Halo as a series has turned for me. The way a football player get a new uniform each year, so will we see a Halo, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, and Far Cry each year. All these games are okay in the way the latest iteration of Angry Birds is okay. It's for the "fans" that don't know any better. Oh well.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on Oct 27, 2015 19:09:07 GMT -5
I swear I've written this someplace else but I never saw a better ending for the Halo series main Character... than at the end of Halo 4. I'll admit my eyes watered when I saw it, and it wasn't too long after that I expressed both my disappointment in the game, and announced that here is where I leave Halo. (Like anyone cares. lol)
Keyes, Johnson, Cortana, everyone the Master Chief (and you) come to care about in these stories are either dead, or unrecognizable (short of voice acting) from their original incarnation. Everyone and everything the Chief has come to know is different, and I think we can relate to that. In Halo 5 the Chief is after something that's been lost and we dearly hope to get it back, but it's all for not. It's story embodies the gamers journey to experience that Halo magic once again. The old Halo has gone, and this time, I don't think it's coming back.
Look on the bright side! We still have The Master Chief Collection and Reach via backwards compatibility on Xbox One! Great Halo FPS experiences are still available to the masses, and we can all move on from this! Right?
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The biggest positive I take from this, is that Halo 5 makes Halo 4 look not only tame by comparison, but maybe even a worthy ending to the Master Chiefs journey. The first thing we see in Halo 4 (right before 343s signature sequel setup) is the Chief as a child, and the last thing we see is his face as a war torn and weary adult. The Chief finally sheds his armor and it felt like this was not only the ending to the game, but HIS ending as a soldier. In talking about the Master Chief story specifically, Halo 4 is a good final chapter... too bad it isnt.
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MMCC0203
Deepthroat
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Favorite Game: LoZ: Majora's Mask
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Post by MMCC0203 on Oct 27, 2015 22:26:43 GMT -5
Man, this game just came out today and the "Halo is dead" backlash has already started. As someone who doesn't own H5 and doesn't have any vested interest in it, I think y'all are being a bit harsh. IMO it's kinda cool that they make a villain out of a main character that's been with the series for over a decade. From what I've seen, the multiplayer also looks like quite the return to form. They got rid of the bullshit unlocks/progression system that hurt 4 and made it as arena-centric as the old games. Maybe it's not exactly the sort of game some Halo fans were looking for in the campaign department, but it's far from a failure from what I've seen.
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Post by Leppy101 on Oct 27, 2015 23:02:49 GMT -5
I actually enjoyed Halo 5 far more than I did with Halo 4. Personally I think all the backlash is because its made by 343i rather than Bungie. And if that's the case, then that's really sad. IMO 343i pulled a 180 from what they did on Halo 4. Yeah it's not going to be the same old Halo we all know and love...that's the point.
Now I haven't watched this video (yet) but from reading the responses I felt like I needed to put my two cents in.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on Oct 27, 2015 23:43:30 GMT -5
That's probably how we differ. MMCC0203
It's all of personal opinion, but what is Halo multiplayer without it's single-player to give everything context? It just might as well be called Armored Space Military 12. Halo as a name comes from the Halo rings in the campaign that I see so very little of in the recent games BTW. That's how I feel about all great multiplayer components. They are components, not what the whole game should consist of.
It's the reason I never got into Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike or even Street Fighter. I'm a loner by nature and I love playing with FRIENDS but the sad reality of my life is that it just doesn't happen that often. There is no friendly competition, no common goal with strangers, it's a sad existence without friends. That's what video games are becoming to me as I get older anyway. When you take away that single-player, it might as well be a mess of random pixels on a screen. It means nothing to me.
I always imagined the multiplayer on Halo was some kind of simulation like as it's explained in Halo 4, and that was as close of a tie to the campaign that I needed but when the campaign is weak, for me, it all falls apart. It's the reason people are less invested with Metal Gear Online as they maybe should be. The story disappointed people, and deep down, I think alot of us care more about story than we'll ever care to admit. Gameplay is everything, accept when you take away the music, the stakes, and all context.
I think the point I'm making is that a game can't be truly great without many components working together and a big one is context for what your doing. When there is no in-game direction besides "go here and do this", everything is left to imagination, and it's hard to care when a game lacks the immersion it requires for you to fully pretend.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on Oct 27, 2015 23:58:29 GMT -5
I actually enjoyed Halo 5 far more than I did with Halo 4. Personally I think all the backlash is because its made by 343i rather than Bungie. And if that's the case, then that's really sad. IMO 343i pulled a 180 from what they did on Halo 4. Yeah it's not going to be the same old Halo we all know and love...that's the point. Now I haven't watched this video (yet) but from reading the responses I felt like I needed to put my two cents in. It's not the simple lack of "Bungie" not being on the box. As it's been said time and time again, the Bungie that exists today it not the one that made Reach. It's that Microsoft and 343 Industries are playing catch with a universe that many gamers have held dear for a long time. They keep dropping the ball and getting farther away from what Halo originally was. At this rate we'll soon be to the point that in contrast to the first few games, we will be comparing a main series Halo game to the likes of Goldeneye Reloaded. By that I mean a game dragging it's given name through the mud for future generations to have to dig through to get to the the quality we came to know the series for. Most won't even bother. That's what I fear at least.
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MMCC0203
Deepthroat
Posts: 658
Now Playing: Fallout 4
Favorite Game: LoZ: Majora's Mask
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Post by MMCC0203 on Oct 28, 2015 0:11:48 GMT -5
That's probably how we differ. MMCC0203 It's all of personal opinion, but what is Halo multiplayer without it's single-player to give everything context? It just might as well be called Armored Space Military 12. Halo as a name comes from the Halo rings in the campaign that I see so very little of in the recent games BTW. That's how I feel about all great multiplayer components. They are components, not what the whole game should consist of. It's the reason I never got into Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike or even Street Fighter. I'm a loner by nature and I love playing with FRIENDS but the sad reality of my life is that it just doesn't happen that often. There is no friendly competition, no common goal with strangers, it's a sad existence without friends. That's what video games are becoming to me as I get older anyway. When you take away that single-player, it might as well be a mess of random pixels on a screen. It means nothing to me. I always imagined the multiplayer on Halo was some kind of simulation like as it's explained in Halo 4, and that was as close of a tie to the campaign that I needed but when the campaign is weak, for me, it all falls apart. It's the reason people are less invested with Metal Gear Online as they maybe should be. The story disappointed people, and deep down, I think alot of us care more about story than we'll ever care to admit. Gameplay is everything, accept when you take away the music, the stakes, and all context. I think the point I'm making is that a game can't be truly great without many components working together and a big one is context for what your doing. When there is no in-game direction besides "go here and do this", everything is left to imagination, and it's hard to care when a game lacks the immersion it requires for you to fully pretend. Don't think Halo multiplayer has ever had context with the exception being H4. It's always been faceless soldiers facing off against other faceless soldiers on themed maps that exist only to facilitate gameplay. I'm also not claiming that solid multiplayer makes up for a weak single player offering (assuming it is weak; I haven't played it so I can't speak to its quality), just that the multiplayer can probably stand on its own if that's all a prospective player is looking for in H5.
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Post by MGNoxa on Oct 28, 2015 1:02:10 GMT -5
Man, this game just came out today and the "Halo is dead" backlash has already started. As someone who doesn't own H5 and doesn't have any vested interest in it, I think y'all are being a bit harsh. IMO it's kinda cool that they make a villain out of a main character that's been with the series for over a decade. From what I've seen, the multiplayer also looks like quite the return to form. They got rid of the bullshit unlocks/progression system that hurt 4 and made it as arena-centric as the old games. Maybe it's not exactly the sort of game some Halo fans were looking for in the campaign department, but it's far from a failure from what I've seen. That's the problem you have no interest in it so you don't know what I mean or other fans that are disappointed by Halo 5. I didn't talk about the multiplayer because that wasn't what the video was about, it's all campaign/story because that's what Halo is to me and a lot of Halo fans grew up with these characters and we all hold them dear to our hearts. So when Halo 4 arrives and the gameplay is disappointing but the Story wins you over by the end you can forgive it. Halo 5 comes along and just throws in characters for the sake of it, changes characters for a plot twist and ruins the ending of Halo 4 which was a cracking good ending... That's why Halo is dead to me, 343 came in and just messed it all up. Plus the story feels unfinished and rushed making a crappy story even crappier and a lot of sequel bait and a crappy ending... I could go on. If people like the new story I think I would be jealous that they were able to enjoy it and just be glad someone was able to like it.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on Oct 28, 2015 1:30:03 GMT -5
The problem is you have no interest in it so you don't know what I mean or other fans that are disappointed by Halo 5. I didn't talk about the multiplayer because that wasn't what the video was about, it's all campaign/story because that's what Halo is to me and a lot of Halo fans grew up with these characters and we all hold them dear to our hearts. So when Halo 4 arrives and the gameplay is disappointing but the Story wins you over by the end you can forgive it. Halo 5 comes along and just throws in characters for the sake of it, changes characters for a plot twist and ruins the ending of Halo 4 which was a cracking good ending... That's why Halo is dead to me, 343 came in and just messed it all up. Plus the story feels unfinished and rushed making a crappy story even crappier and a lot of sequel bait and a crappy ending... I could go on. If people like the new story I think I would be jealous that they were able to enjoy it and just be glad someone was able to like it. I just want to point out that Halo 4 is just as guilty as Halo 5 for all but ignoring everything that's happened in the Bungie games including throwing a bunch of characters at us and expecting us to care when they are little more than talking heads, barking orders. It's a much more focused story revolving almost entirely around Chief and Cortana, but "credit" where it's due. Halo 4 started that. Halo 5 just did it alot more. Also, how could you NOT ruin the ending to Halo 4 short of writing Master Chief out of the series for Halo 5? The knowledge that a whole new trilogy was planned from the get go already made any ending it could have had a little less profound. We knew Cortana was going to come back some how. They killed her off too conveniently by giving her Chief saving super powers at the last minute. If you can break yourself into doesend of pieces, then shield a point-blank nuclear explosion, you aint dying.
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Post by MGNoxa on Oct 28, 2015 1:54:36 GMT -5
I just want to point out that Halo 4 is just as guilty as Halo 5 for all but ignoring everything that's happened in the Bungie games including throwing a bunch of characters at us and expecting us to care when they are little more than talking heads, barking orders. It's a much more focused story revolving almost entirely around Chief and Cortana, but "credit" where it's due. Halo 4 started that. Halo 5 just did it alot more. Also, how could you NOT ruin the ending to Halo 4 short of writing Master Chief out of the series for Halo 5? The knowledge that a whole new trilogy was planned from the get go already made any ending it could have had a little less profound. We knew Cortana was going to come back some how. They killed her off too conveniently by giving her Chief saving super powers at the last minute. If you can break yourself into doesend of pieces, then shield a point-blank nuclear explosion, you aint dying. What Halo 5 looked like it was going to be made sense, the first teaser or when we first started hearing about Locke hunting him down, both of those would've made a great story focusing on Chief as a character. Instead we get some bad plot twists, underdeveloped characters and an overall crappy story. Also I knew Cortana would be back at some point, I just expected something... better. 343 destroyed her character and the problem is the story feels incomplete and all I can think is "was there stuff cut out that made it work?" But for me it's too late the damage has been done. Yes Halo 4 is guilty for a lot of the same stuff but the main story focused on Cortana and Chief, the game was based around that and by the end of it they won me over.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on Oct 28, 2015 3:20:34 GMT -5
Halo 4 had alot of problems and convinced me that 343 was taking the series to places I would rather not go. You can read my review here. I do have a new found appreciation for Halo 4 if only because it's likely the last Halo game genuinely centered on main characters from the original game. I say that now, and because Microsoft MUST publish another Halo, and 343 MUST create another one, they will probably try to win back people like us by advertising Halo 3 Anniversary to somehow tie into the events of Halo 6. The same way they tried so hard to make Halo 2 Anniversary tie into Halo 5 by retroactively inserting a cut-scene before the campaign to make it feel "fresh". Seriously, twelve months ago 343 was giving the impression that Halo 5 was going to be a kind of throwback to the Halo 2 gameplay style but it was all a bunch of crap to simultaneously fuel the hype train for both MCC, and Halo 5. Don't even get me started on all the cryptic terminal crap. You can imagine how disappointed I was in the beta. They brought back the SMG, no duel wielding. Why!? it's just a tease when the SMG is the signature duel wield weapon for the series. On Halo 3A: I'm actually very interested to see how well Halo 3 Anniversary does. Will all the old halo fans buy it or use their better judgment in assuming 343 likely bastardized it like they did with Halo 2 Anniversary by recycling assets from games that take place years after. Halo 3 Anniversary feels unnecessary considering we got it in The Master Chief Collection last year and still looks and sounds great, but Halo is an annual franchise so it's inevitable I suppose.
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Post by JMMREVIEW on Oct 28, 2015 4:17:13 GMT -5
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Post by MGNoxa on Oct 28, 2015 4:29:54 GMT -5
Halo 4 had alot of problems and convinced me that 343 was taking the series to places I would rather not go. You can read my review here. I do have a new found appreciation for Halo 4 if only because it's likely the last Halo game genuinely centered on main characters from the original game. I say that now, and because Microsoft MUST publish another Halo, and 343 MUST create another one, they will probably try to win back people like us by advertising Halo 3 Anniversary to somehow tie into the events of Halo 6. The same way they tried so hard to make Halo 2 Anniversary tie into Halo 5 by retroactively inserting a cut-scene before the campaign to make it feel "fresh". Seriously, twelve months ago 343 was giving the impression that Halo 5 was going to be a kind of throwback to the Halo 2 gameplay style but it was all a bunch of crap to simultaneously fuel the hype train for both MCC, and Halo 5. Don't even get me started on all the cryptic terminal crap. You can imagine how disappointed I was in the beta. They brought back the SMG, no duel wielding. Why!? it's just a tease when the SMG is the signature duel wield weapon for the series. On Halo 3A: I'm actually very interested to see how well Halo 3 Anniversary does. Will all the old halo fans buy it or use their better judgment in assuming 343 likely bastardized it like they did with Halo 2 Anniversary by recycling assets from games that take place years after. Halo 3 Anniversary feels unnecessary considering we got it in The Master Chief Collection last year and still looks and sounds great, but Halo is an annual franchise so it's inevitable I suppose. When I played Halo 4 I assumed it was first game troubles but Halo 5 confirms that Microsoft and 343 aren't interested in keeping Halo separate from Call of Duty. Do you think Halo 3 Anniversary could be real? Something tells me that TMCC was it, that's it for rereleases we aren't getting anymore not until the next Xbox. Also if Halo is annual what's coming out next year? Halo Wars 2? H3 Anniversary will have to be in 2017. God dammit I don't like thinking about Halo anymore but Halo was my first Xbox game and... I'm just so depressed to see Halo 5 kill my interest in it.
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Lenrat117
A Hind D!?
I may have the body of a weak and feeble man but I have the Heart and Stomach of a Queen.
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Post by Lenrat117 on Oct 28, 2015 7:04:18 GMT -5
You bring up an excellent point about Cortana although I think you just wanted to whine about SJW's. Cortana's always changed, and I don't mean just as Graphics have got better I mean she's slowly changed through the years. In CE she had short hair and was rather petit, Halo 2 her figure was more akin to a model, Halo 3 was interesting as she still had the sex appeal but she looked more mature and "realistic", dialing down the T and A. Halo 4 is probably the more interesting of the games in terms of cortana's appearance. Her breasts, her hips and the fact she's more curvy all indicate that 343 were going for a more maternal look for Cortana. The fact that they never went anywhere with that is a shame because they could have done something really interesting.
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