MMCC0203
Deepthroat
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Favorite Game: LoZ: Majora's Mask
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Post by MMCC0203 on May 27, 2014 1:27:33 GMT -5
Saw this new article on Gamespot and found it to be an interesting read. Can't say I agree with everything in it, but it's interesting to imagine what could have been had PD been released on the Gamecube. Thoughts?
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Post by JMMREVIEW on May 27, 2014 6:48:44 GMT -5
"ensuring a smoother experience that wouldn't require you to take Dramamine to keep your lunch safely in your belly. " lol
I am in work so I cant read it all, I will give it a read later.... my gut feeling (without reading the article is)
N64 PD = one of the best game on the system. GC PD = sub par title launch.
Don't get we wrong PD was great but it was better being the big fish in the small pond instead of the small fish in a big pond. I am thinking about the Duke Nukem game which came out on the 360, when I was playing that I was thinking, this would be a good game if it came out 10 years ago when it was supposed to!
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MMCC0203
Deepthroat
Posts: 658
Now Playing: Fallout 4
Favorite Game: LoZ: Majora's Mask
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Post by MMCC0203 on May 27, 2014 10:11:44 GMT -5
"ensuring a smoother experience that wouldn't require you to take Dramamine to keep your lunch safely in your belly. " lol I am in work so I cant read it all, I will give it a read later.... my gut feeling (without reading the article is) N64 PD = one of the best game on the system. GC PD = sub par title launch. Don't get we wrong PD was great but it was better being the big fish in the small pond instead of the small fish in a big pond. I am thinking about the Duke Nukem game which came out on the 360, when I was playing that I was thinking, this would be a good game if it came out 10 years ago when it was supposed to! What? By your logic PD XBLA is horrible because it's a port of a game that came out two console generations ago. Duke Nukem Forever was just a bad game period.
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Post by JMMREVIEW on May 27, 2014 14:28:30 GMT -5
What? By your logic PD XBLA is horrible because it's a port of a game that came out two console generations ago. Duke Nukem Forever was just a bad game period. Your comparison doesn't hold up because you are talking about a game that has already been released and then re-released. With this topic in mind I was describing a game that had been designed for an old console (and never play by anyone) released on a modern console. Most of the people who bought PD XBLA would have already played it before and re bought it for nostalgia. I often wonder what people who played it for the first time on the XBLA would have thought of it...
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MMCC0203
Deepthroat
Posts: 658
Now Playing: Fallout 4
Favorite Game: LoZ: Majora's Mask
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Post by MMCC0203 on May 27, 2014 22:03:06 GMT -5
What? By your logic PD XBLA is horrible because it's a port of a game that came out two console generations ago. Duke Nukem Forever was just a bad game period. Your comparison doesn't hold up because you are talking about a game that has already been released and then re-released. With this topic in mind I was describing a game that had been designed for an old console (and never play by anyone) released on a modern console. Most of the people who bought PD XBLA would have already played it before and re bought it for nostalgia. I often wonder what people who played it for the first time on the XBLA would have thought of it... Still, wasn't your point that a game like PD would be mediocre on newer hardware (the Gamecube) simply because it was designed for older hardware? If not, why exactly do you think PD would have been a sub par launch title on the GC? In other words, what would it have lacked technically that made it a "small fish" in comparison to the other "big fish" titles on the GC?
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Post by JMMREVIEW on May 28, 2014 8:07:31 GMT -5
In other words, what would it have lacked technically that made it a "small fish" in comparison to the other "big fish" titles on the GC? Maybe I should have adapted the phrase to "better being the big fish in the big pond instead of the small fish in a small pond". N64 Big fish: Pushing the console to its limits with a big audience, Nintendo 64 sold 32.93 million PD came out at the end of its life, the best possible time to released because the were lots of people with an N64. CG Small fish: Gamecubes 21.74 million sales (not at launch of course this number would be much lower then) any game designed on old hardware will look crap on new hardware and wont stand up to the other GC graphics. Perfect Dark (and everything else for that matter) was a product of its time, perhaps the best product of its time. The more time passes with any type of technology the more ineffective it becomes. That is just simply Moore's law I can imagine a review for it going something like "it would have been a great game had it been released 2 years ago but we have move on from the GoldenEye era"
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MMCC0203
Deepthroat
Posts: 658
Now Playing: Fallout 4
Favorite Game: LoZ: Majora's Mask
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Post by MMCC0203 on May 28, 2014 15:21:46 GMT -5
In other words, what would it have lacked technically that made it a "small fish" in comparison to the other "big fish" titles on the GC? Maybe I should have adapted the phrase to "better being the big fish in the big pond instead of the small fish in a small pond". N64 Big fish: Pushing the console to its limits with a big audience, Nintendo 64 sold 32.93 million PD came out at the end of its life, the best possible time to released because the were lots of people with an N64. CG Small fish: Gamecubes 21.74 million sales (not at launch of course this number would be much lower then) any game designed on old hardware will look crap on new hardware and wont stand up to the other GC graphics. Perfect Dark (and everything else for that matter) was a product of its time, perhaps the best product of its time. The more time passes with any type of technology the more ineffective it becomes. That is just simply Moore's law I can imagine a review for it going something like "it would have been a great game had it been released 2 years ago but we have move on from the GoldenEye era" You realize that, had PD been released on GC, it probably would have received a visual overhaul in order to take advantage of the new hardware, right? Yes it might not have looked as good as later games on the system, but it likely would have been a huge step up from anything on the N64. Also, I think it's unfair to apply Moore's law and lump video games in with all other forms of technology. Technically speaking most games definitely don't age well, but when it comes to gameplay mechanics certain games (PD, pretty much any Zelda game, etc) are timeless IMO. This "X game was great, but only for it's time" stuff that you seem to be suggesting doesn't sit well with me. Perfect Dark was a great game when it launched and it's still a great game today despite being over a decade old.
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on May 28, 2014 15:39:03 GMT -5
I always play the latest game in a series then go back to may favorite and see how it compares. Sadly, many games that were once held as a pinnacle of entertainment have fallen into obscurity due to outdated mechanics and controls. Perfect Dark, at least on XBLA, is not one of those games.
There is no sprint button: Perfect Dark doesn't need one as the levels are small enough and you move quick enough you never feel the need for it.
There are no checkpoints: I will admit on the hardest difficulty a half-way checkpoint would ease quite a bit of frustration. Lack of these things is the mark of an older game I'm sorry to say. Just my personal preference through. I'm terrible on Perfect Agent.
There is no regenerating health: All realism set aside there is no in-game reason as to why health would regenerate. It's a huge gripe I have in games like Call of Duty where a soldier can take upwards to 100 bullets in a single life without dieing.
There are no waypoints: Only in the most massive of FPS games are way points necessary. Perfect Dark isnt one of them. Otherwise they are a constant reminder and added pressure to finish a level before expressing your freedom to explore it at your own pace.
There is no ADS mechanic: Don't you just wish your guns were as accurate when firing from the hip as they are in the action movies many of these games take so much inspiration from?
JMM, for the sake of argument, by 2001 what in the genre did the home console market move on to because in 2001 all I remember talking about as far as shooters go, was Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. PC was dead as far as we were concerned. Everyone was playing PlayStation and N64.
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Post by JMMREVIEW on May 28, 2014 17:27:45 GMT -5
JMM, for the sake of argument, by 2001 what in the genre did the home console market move on to because in 2001 all I remember talking about as far as shooters go, was Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. PC was dead as far as we were concerned. Everyone was playing PlayStation and N64. 2001 Was pretty much big is better, with the newer hardware game developers were no longer confined to small maps like in PD and GE. Any PD multiplayer map could fit into say blood gulch at least five times over. We also have multiplayer online games and destructible environments in games. Halo 1 Return to Castle Wolfenstein Counter-Strike Operation Flashpoint Red Faction Tribes 2 Serious Sam Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon No one lives forever but it likely would have been a huge step up from anything on the N64. To recap popular online FPS games in 2001 featured either an online multiplayer mode, much larger maps than we had seen before and/or destructible environments (none of this was present in Perfect Dark). Even if it was added to Perfect Dark then the game released wouldnt be Perfect Dark! so it wouldnt be fair to comment saying as that game wouldnt be the Perfect Dark we all know and love!
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on May 28, 2014 18:51:26 GMT -5
But JMM. I said at the end of my last post that PC did not exist to my circle of friends in 2001. The only "PC gamers" I've ever met, honestly, are the people I've met online and are usually the "PC Master Race" type. Even when PC only games like Battlefield 2 and Crysis came out most people I knew turned there nose up at them because there was a counter-part or distraction like BF:Modern Combat and Halo 3 respectively that kept them from lingering on the option to buy PC games.
It was all about N64/PS1/PS2 and the upcoming Xbox and Gamecube. Really I'm probably not alone in this. I mean, nobody I ever talked to about video games ever mentioned PC as a gaming platform. There was nothing between late 1997 and 2002 other than Perfect Dark and Halo:CE that measured up to the sheer quality/quantity to come before and after. Then TimeSplitters 2 came out and Halo didn't look quite as good anymore....
I want a TimeSplitters HD collection so bad.
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Post by JMMREVIEW on May 29, 2014 7:47:00 GMT -5
From memory I was mostly playing Halo, Return to Castle Wolfenstein (PC) Red Faction (PS2) and Max Payne (PC) in 2001 but I really don't know. Metal Gear Solid 2 was out near the end of 2001 so I was playing that quite a bit too.
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Xargen
Metal Gear
Kickin' names, taking ass.
Posts: 1,651
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Post by Xargen on May 29, 2014 9:09:44 GMT -5
I've always loved PC games... I have fond fond memories of DOS games like Theater of Death, Shadow of Yserbius and Armour Geddon
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Post by Blade Runner 07 on May 29, 2014 10:00:15 GMT -5
Me too. My first games were Command and Conquer, Inca II, Z, Fury 3, all on PC. It's just once I get a Nintendo and later an N64, I never went back to PC.
In 2001 (in no particular order) I was hung up on Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2, Perfect Dark, Zelda:OoS, and i finally got a copy of Super Smash Bros. 64. That was more or less my year in gaming. Then at the very end of 2001 I got Melee and THPS3 with my Gamecube.
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MMCC0203
Deepthroat
Posts: 658
Now Playing: Fallout 4
Favorite Game: LoZ: Majora's Mask
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Post by MMCC0203 on May 29, 2014 12:26:36 GMT -5
JMM, for the sake of argument, by 2001 what in the genre did the home console market move on to because in 2001 all I remember talking about as far as shooters go, was Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. PC was dead as far as we were concerned. Everyone was playing PlayStation and N64. 2001 Was pretty much big is better, with the newer hardware game developers were no longer confined to small maps like in PD and GE. Any PD multiplayer map could fit into say blood gulch at least five times over. We also have multiplayer online games and destructible environments in games.... *snip* but it likely would have been a huge step up from anything on the N64. To recap popular online FPS games in 2001 featured either an online multiplayer mode, much larger maps than we had seen before and/or destructible environments (none of this was present in Perfect Dark). Even if it was added to Perfect Dark then the game released wouldnt be Perfect Dark! so it wouldnt be fair to comment saying as that game wouldnt be the Perfect Dark we all know and love! I don't deny that those games were more advanced technically, but PD isn't an inferior game simply because it lacks features like destructible environments or large maps. Remember that PD is an arena FPS in the same vein as GE, Quake, and UE. Timesplitters (a series that began and existed alongside the games you listed) also had none of those "advanced" features while also retaining the core gameplay from PD/GE. Why? Because all the TS games were also arena shooters; destructible environments or large maps arguably would have ruined what made those games great. As for online multiplayer, it certainly would have been an interesting addition, but I don't think it would have improved the game significantly. Given the sheer amount of options and bot customization available in the combat sim, it's pretty clear that PD was designed with local multiplayer in mind. Besides, it's presence in the XBLA port didn't really improve the game considering how limited it was IMO. In the end PD did what it did almost perfectly. It's a giant among console arena shooters that still has so many features not present in modern shooters. To say it's an inferior game because it lacked a few arbitrary things that other games had at the time isn't fair.
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Xargen
Metal Gear
Kickin' names, taking ass.
Posts: 1,651
Now Playing: I PLAY THA VIDJA GAMES!
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Post by Xargen on May 29, 2014 16:46:49 GMT -5
Oh MAN... Inca 2... Good times, I'll have to dig that out sometime I think
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